The bettercoach Podcast – Episode #01

00:00:01: It's like there are rules to football and then there are rules to playing tennis.

00:00:05: But you should not use your football while you're playing tennis.

00:00:07: But you should not use your football while you're playing tennis.

00:00:10: So I think in the corporate world there's certain rules and cultural habits.

00:00:16: And if you don't know them, you you're just

00:00:19: yeah, you you learn quickly.

00:00:24: Yo u have to trust yourself.

00:00:27: It's not don't trust people, but it's trust yourself first

00:00:30: and then work with that and you'll get to where you need to be.

00:00:36: So I think it's very important to

00:00:38: understand how do I react in stressful situations.

00:00:42: it's normal for people who are firefighters.

00:00:44: It's normal to learn that when you're in the police force.

00:00:48: but nobody is teaching you that when you become a manager or a leader.

00:00:57: This is the bettercoach podcast.

00:00:58: Welcome to today's episode.

00:01:00: In this podcast, we zoom close into the transformative power

00:01:04: of coaching through conversation with professional coaches

00:01:07: and those that have guided along the way.

00:01:12: Join us as we follow these professional journeys,

00:01:14: seeking authentic insights and experience real life stories that illuminate

00:01:19: the impact of coaching on personal growth and professional development.

00:01:25: You remember

00:01:26: back in school, most of us had that one teacher

00:01:29: who was so passionate that they made a true impact on your life.

00:01:33: Chances are that Claire, our first guest today,

00:01:36: could have been just that teacher. Born in the US

00:01:40: the international educator who lived and taught across the globe from Spain,

00:01:44: Thailand to the Netherlands where she currently resides.

00:01:47: Today, Claire is a global advocate for families to have access

00:01:51: to affordable and quality early childhood education around the world.

00:01:56: We are extremely happy that she is here with us today

00:01:59: to talk about her own demanding times, and how she made it her way through

00:02:03: with the guidance of her coach, Ellen, which is here with us today.

00:02:12: Being engaged

00:02:13: wholeheartedly in quiet about everything human, a grand master of empathy

00:02:17: and connecting with others are a few things that come to mind

00:02:21: when describing Ellen Herb.

00:02:23: Ellen has been working as a systemic coach and business consultant dedicated

00:02:27: to leadership and personal development for over a decade.

00:02:35: Ellen and Claire

00:02:36: first met through their involvement with the Women's Impact Alliance (WIA),

00:02:41: a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering women leaders

00:02:45: driving social and environmental change worldwide.

00:02:49: For further details on WIA, please refer to the show notes.

00:03:01: So the first part, what are we going to talk about today

00:03:04: is the, well, the phenomena that you are best of a leader.

00:03:09: If you know, to lead yourself in the first place.

00:03:12: Right.

00:03:12: And this is something that is that bettercoach has in common with you as well.

00:03:17: Ellen.

00:03:18: And could you elaborate on that concept of the importance of leading yourself

00:03:22: before even attempting to lead others for us a little bit?

00:03:27: Yeah.

00:03:29: to me it's a it's a process.

00:03:31: It's an ongoing process to actually understand how,

00:03:36: leading yourself works.

00:03:37: leading yourself works.

00:03:38: it's not something that we learn in school.

00:03:41: maybe it's something that, probably,

00:03:44: school is unlearning

00:03:47: or, teaching us,

00:03:48: because to me, it's, it means that before I,

00:03:53: responsible for a certain project to a certain, team,

00:03:59: I should

00:03:59: be aware of the fact how I am functioning.

00:04:02: Meaning, to me, leadership is is cool if everyone's in a flow.

00:04:08: leadership is actually,

00:04:10: very, very important when it becomes tricky

00:04:13: and when things become tough.

00:04:16: I am usually reacting and a stressed way

00:04:20: or people are reacting in a stressed out way.

00:04:23: And then to me, it's very important to understand what is happening within me.

00:04:27: So if I have learned and early ages that I will,

00:04:32: be better off to slide

00:04:36: to go out of the situation,

00:04:38: it's different, to compared to someone who is, maybe,

00:04:43: rather going into the situation and taking care of it,

00:04:47: thinking I have to do it all by myself.

00:04:50: So there are certain processes that go on within you that you should be aware of.

00:04:55: And they're not wrong.

00:04:57: They're not good or bad.

00:04:58: They're just happening in certain situations.

00:05:01: So I think it's very important to

00:05:04: understand how do I react in stressful situations.

00:05:08: it's normal for people who are firefighters.

00:05:10: It's normal to learn that when you're in the police force.

00:05:14: but nobody is teaching you that when you become a manager or a leader..

00:05:18: So I think that is a one example for being aware, of the fact

00:05:23: what is how am I working as a system within myself?

00:05:27: Thank you, thank you.

00:05:28: Very interesting.

00:05:29: The concept

00:05:30: leading yourself before you lead others and then eventually lead an organization.

00:05:34: Has that played to you, Claire?

00:05:35: Has I played any part in your journey, your career?

00:05:39: Yes it has.

00:05:41: and I definitely resonate with starting with yourself

00:05:45: and being able to understand

00:05:48: why you feel something in a certain situation

00:05:52: and before I met Ellen, I would react very strongly

00:05:57: to situations, whether they were positive to me or negative.

00:06:03: but that didn't always get me where I wanted to be, and I never truly felt,

00:06:08: even or like I was then

00:06:12: solving a solution or solving a problem that I had inside.

00:06:16: That was why I was feeling a certain way.

00:06:17: And so with Ellen, she gave me the tools and, structure

00:06:22: and the conversations to explore where these feelings come from.

00:06:28: When I think, oh, I can't lead this group, whether it's children

00:06:32: or managing a team of teachers or working outside of education.

00:06:37: And instead of saying, well, here's what you need to do as a leader, it's

00:06:40: where does that come from?

00:06:41: From within you and within, your system.

00:06:46: And it was amazing to learn how I could then

00:06:48: feel it's label it, identify

00:06:51: all together, not necessarily even in that order.

00:06:55: and then work from there, give it space to continue and feel good

00:07:00: about my choices afterwards in interacting with other people.

00:07:05: Okay.

00:07:05: And what would you say even the both of you like, what would you say?

00:07:09: What would a person and an individual have to do in order

00:07:12: to, to, to gain that ability to lead oneself?

00:07:16: What practical steps towards that maybe.

00:07:18: Or what advice would you give somebody who's new to the concept?

00:07:21: What do you start?

00:07:24: I would say just pause.

00:07:26: Really for a moment, I, I had to personally

00:07:29: and for everyone it will be different and I think giving space to that as well.

00:07:34: So hearing my story for example,

00:07:37: might resonate, but it might also cause different emotions of.

00:07:41: And I experienced that too.

00:07:42: A why can't I get there or feel like that?

00:07:45: So I would say pause and take a breath and be very gentle with yourself.

00:07:51: And once you give yourself that feeling of what I would give,

00:07:55: I hope a five year old or six year old in my class

00:07:58: to then give that.

00:07:59: You've taught me how to give that to myself,

00:08:01: and that opens up doors that you didn't realize were closed.

00:08:06: It's quite magical to see that process happen.

00:08:11: Yeah, I was just thinking of a client.

00:08:13: Sorry. Another client of mine.

00:08:17: it's a manager

00:08:18: and middle management and corporate world.

00:08:21: And he discovered coaching, for the first time. And,

00:08:27: he said, oh, well, I before I worked with you,

00:08:30: I didn't even know that I could observe my ways of thinking.

00:08:35: And I think that is a big step

00:08:37: to understand that we usually we just,

00:08:41: human doings, we're doing a lot of stuff, but we're not reflecting on it.

00:08:47: and to understand not how's the business working

00:08:50: and how's this project going, but to understand that this is a system

00:08:55: in itself, my brain, my nervous system, and to have an interest first.

00:09:00: So maybe that is a also being curious.

00:09:03: And the other step is being non-judgmental with yourself.

00:09:07: And that is a key for me.

00:09:10: If you learn to be that with yourself and to have that other voice

00:09:15: that is non-judgmental, observing and analyzing,

00:09:21: you are also able to do this with others.

00:09:23: And I think that is the one of the biggest problems managers have is

00:09:27: or one of the biggest issues they continue to have is how do I give feedback?

00:09:31: How do I give bad news to my team or to others?

00:09:36: And it's all connected.

00:09:37: So this is why I'm saying it's connected to each other.

00:09:39: I learn a lot about myself when I'm working with my team and

00:09:44: when I do the business, they it's to me it's a holistic

00:09:47: and systemic approach and that's the way I can use it.

00:09:51: Also for myself.

00:09:53:

00:09:54: OK, getting started with that right away.

00:09:57: The two of you along the coaching journey that you two have had together.

00:10:03: It's still ongoing in a way, isn't it?

00:10:06: Yeah.

00:10:06: We I mean, we finished the official

00:10:09: WIA – thank you again –

00:10:14: coaching and then what was quite

00:10:17: which was quite unusual to say, okay, we continue this,

00:10:21: but yes, there are other clients that

00:10:23: you know, come back and they or they come back

00:10:27: and continue the work because, again, it's an ongoing process.

00:10:31: You decide who you need as a mentor or a coachee.

00:10:34: On your way. Yeah. Okay.

00:10:36: But in that whole process, I mean, and and the relationship

00:10:39: you still share even after WIA,

00:10:42: and what would you say

00:10:45: Claire was, has there been a concept in that work

00:10:49: that really stood out for you, some a realization even, that you would say,

00:10:54: okay, if I haven't met, if I hadn't met Ellen ever,

00:10:58: I would have never known about this, about that and myself.

00:11:03: Yes. there's been a number of those.

00:11:06: Oh, thank goodness for Ellen moments.

00:11:08: but one that really stuck out to me was, a session

00:11:12: where we were really getting into systems and what that means to different people.

00:11:19: And I was, for the first time learning about it at all.

00:11:23: And she's describing it to me, and I'm starting to think of my own system

00:11:28: and where I feel, emotions,

00:11:32: where I feel reactions and how I see it in a whole.

00:11:36: And I said, I think I even cut you off because I was so excited to Ellen,

00:11:41: I know what my system is and my my personal system is a solar system.

00:11:46: And I was so excited because I really could

00:11:49: see it in my mind, and it was almost like it was in front of me.

00:11:53: And so for me, that means that we have our planets,

00:11:56: we have the sun, everything is moving around.

00:12:00: And before I knew systems that felt very confusing to me and very hard.

00:12:06: My go to was I need to take a nap.

00:12:08: That was my my one tool.

00:12:10: I was napping a lot, and with this idea I could

00:12:13: then see myself as different parts within the solar system.

00:12:16: So I'm not always the sun, but sometimes I'm not always, the planets.

00:12:20: I could be the ring and just understanding that it moves, it changes.

00:12:25: And what are the roles that I have assigned to each planets

00:12:29: Productivity. Is one creativity?

00:12:32: Which one do I feel strongly with right now,

00:12:34: and where then can I go from that? If I want to be,

00:12:39: If my brain wants to be productive.

00:12:41: But but Jupiter is really tired right now.

00:12:44: And that's right.

00:12:46: I need to see that and give it space and say, okay,

00:12:51: I will work within that energy that I have.

00:12:54: And so I could see it from that outside

00:12:56: point of view, looking to me right now, looking down.

00:13:00: But it could be looking from any side.

00:13:03: And now should everybody got a solar system.

00:13:06: Just so I think it sounds like a good idea because model.

00:13:09: How would you describe it's magic?

00:13:11: How did you come about developing that?

00:13:14: Oh, I didn't develop a solar system because that's totally,

00:13:17: totally it's totally Claire’s! But I loved it.

00:13:20: And I was so impressed that it became so clear to her because I'm,

00:13:26: I mean, a lot

00:13:27: of coaches are you are using methods or the,

00:13:30: the framework of inner voice dialog or working with parts.

00:13:33: And I'm, I'm, I think,

00:13:37: even if there is of course, also people who

00:13:40: maybe can't deal with this methodology, it's totally fine to me.

00:13:44: To me, it's, it's just it works very, very well.

00:13:48: And it means to me that people are discovering just the like

00:13:51: the manager I mentioned that they have in a way of picturing their mind

00:13:57: and what is going on in their mind, and not only in their mind,

00:14:01: but also in the in and the rest of the intelligence that we have.

00:14:06: So it's not only the mental intelligence, but also the intelligence of the body,

00:14:10: because if I sit in front of my teammate and he's he's in a bad mood,

00:14:15: I might be also getting bad mood.

00:14:19: So what does it do to my system? Okay.

00:14:22: What does it trigger as a lot of people are now saying?

00:14:26: Yeah.

00:14:26: So coming back to your question, I think it's about with my clients.

00:14:31: It's about finding their ways of working, how their mind works

00:14:36: and how it works with their emotional intelligence

00:14:39: and how they can use it strategically and still be very authentic with it.

00:14:44: Like, I feel that, there is the rage coming up,

00:14:48: or I feel that I'm not very well today and I'm supposed to be,

00:14:53: I don't know, the marketing and sales guy

00:14:55: who's selling it all today, but I'm just not feeling like it.

00:14:59: So what do I do with that?

00:15:01: Yeah, I need to be, like, back on the screen today.

00:15:06: How can I deal with this?

00:15:07: And that's something that I'm trying to

00:15:11: come up with in my clients so they find their own

00:15:16: visualizations and systems.

00:15:18: And I have people who will just rather come up with a with the idea of a stage

00:15:23: and that they're not only the protagonist or they suddenly feel it.

00:15:28: That is the protagonist

00:15:29: that has been the protagonist leading myself for ten years now.

00:15:33: But it's not really working anymore.

00:15:35: So I need another.

00:15:36: I need another actor on stage, and I can be the director

00:15:40: and the actor and the sidekick of that.

00:15:43: So I'm all of that, and but I'm making a decision.

00:15:46: I'm making a conscious decision,

00:15:48: which is going to be the one today or in that moment.

00:15:53: And that's shifting.

00:15:54: So you can shift in your you can shift from

00:15:57: from Juno to Mars,

00:16:00: and other ones can shift from one persona to, to, into that other persona.

00:16:05: And they're all of it. Yeah.

00:16:08: Great.

00:16:10: But the next question, I think

00:16:12: we have to look, I would love to talk a little bit about your biography.

00:16:15: See, if that's okay. Clear.

00:16:17: Because you've been well, you are an educator.

00:16:21: You started off being an educator, but during your career

00:16:24: you passed being, also, you passed corporate a little bit.

00:16:28: You, you, you like, delved into the corporate world for a little

00:16:31: for not that not even a little bit, but for a while.

00:16:34: And you later on became an entrepreneur.

00:16:37: So it was can you just quickly walk us through the stages

00:16:41: and what you've been doing before

00:16:42: we talk about that a little more.

00:16:44: Sure, sure.

00:16:45: I'll try to keep it concise.

00:16:48: But I, I've been in education as a teacher for the last ten years,

00:16:53: and I've taught in a few countries,

00:16:56: and I've seen a need in different countries or a pattern of,

00:17:02: what we can improve upon in the education system.

00:17:05: So for me, that's creating a space where children feel safe and listened to,

00:17:10: as well as those working with them, and how we can create that

00:17:15: as an equal footing across the board on a global scale.

00:17:21: so of course, that change

00:17:22: can't just happen, in my opinion, within a classroom.

00:17:26: A lot can.

00:17:26: But I had a lot of energy to continue that.

00:17:31: moving outside as well.

00:17:32: And circumstances happened where I was lucky enough to work

00:17:37: with different companies and corporations

00:17:39: to bring in, resources

00:17:43: or ideas or different actors

00:17:46: who could really affect change within the system.

00:17:51: And yes, that's brought me

00:17:54: and it's more cyclical, and it's happens where I have a touch of that.

00:17:57: And then I go into social entrepreneurship, and I meet people

00:18:00: who can help or want to help and continue this change.

00:18:04: And I have to say, the one

00:18:05: constant has very much been at the moment, me in the classroom.

00:18:09: And that's been an amazing grounding factor for me.

00:18:13: to say, this is why I'm doing this and being supported

00:18:16: by so many people within my system who,

00:18:21: not only support me but also want to help.

00:18:23: So it's very interchangeable.

00:18:26: But thinking about how

00:18:27: how different a classroom is from a corporate setting, for example.

00:18:32: And I'm really intrigued about that.

00:18:36: Maybe not.

00:18:37: Maybe not that much.

00:18:39: No. Well, but can you just quickly talk about that a little bit?

00:18:42: How how you navigated that,

00:18:44: that change, I mean, out of the classroom into corporate.

00:18:48: Yes. I would love to because it was it's always a

00:18:52: a great story, especially for people listening.

00:18:55: That didn't happen to me.

00:18:56: That thank goodness it was hard.

00:18:58: It wasn't easy at all.

00:19:01: And for me, going from an educational environment where I really strive

00:19:06: to create a space that's transparent and we share and we collect ideas,

00:19:11: and because we want to make change now and we get these students now.

00:19:15: So if I have a good idea, I want everyone to know about it.

00:19:18: I want them to critique it.

00:19:19: I want them to use it, tell me how to make it better.

00:19:22: And we continue to grow like that.

00:19:26: the corporate

00:19:26: world, I learned, is a very different playground

00:19:30: and I had to learn how to, change my language.

00:19:34: It was a lot of I could speak a lot

00:19:38: in educational language and and the books I've read.

00:19:42: But when it came to even,

00:19:45: filing an invoice, things either let me Google

00:19:49: and it just makes you feel really small and if I hadn't have had that experience

00:19:54: with Ellen, I would have stopped and said, I can't go on.

00:20:00: and through the whole experience,

00:20:01: I've also learned, looking back, I trust your system.

00:20:05: Trust your gut.

00:20:06: apparently my gut was in the corporate world

00:20:09: for much longer than I was at this, and I had not listened.

00:20:12: And so I had experiences due to that, that looking back, I realize.

00:20:17: Okay, system. Thank you.

00:20:18: Yeah, I learned

00:20:20: then and it's just interesting to look back and see where that journey is

00:20:23: taking me now. But it was tough.

00:20:25: I'm still learning, but it's getting better and easier.

00:20:30: And I can imagine, I can imagine.

00:20:33: Can I ask you what?

00:20:35: What a common, maybe even common challenges that people face

00:20:38: when coming into the corporate world.

00:20:40: Well, first entering the corporate world, how would you describe that?

00:20:43: What what do you see in your practice? Oh,

00:20:47: I remember my own experience and that is a long time ago.

00:20:50: That was in 2005.

00:20:52: So I just came fresh from uni and very highly motivated.

00:20:56: And I thought like, well,

00:20:58: so cool to work for them.

00:21:01: Big enterprise. ultramobile industry.

00:21:04: and that was cool.

00:21:05: Those days, these days have changed.

00:21:08: So people from Gen Z, they don't think it's that cool.

00:21:11: So I'm, I'm very, careful with saying

00:21:15: this is in general what people feel like when they enter the corporate world.

00:21:19: I felt it was amazing.

00:21:21: but very soon I figured out that,

00:21:25: with regards

00:21:26: to openness and transparency, not everything that is said

00:21:29: is actually always what is, what I connect with these words and meaning of sharing.

00:21:35: And I remember and we had a cultural values workshop,

00:21:40: I just answered all the questions

00:21:41: as I thought I should.

00:21:45: And afterwards they were really furious with me

00:21:47: because first of all, I was new and I wasn't supposed to speak up.

00:21:52: So I had to learn that there's a rules sort of and and status.

00:21:56: So the status in the room speaking first.

00:21:59: So as you just mentioned playground, I think it's, it's

00:22:02: you can compare it to certain games.

00:22:04: It's like there are rules to football and then there are rules to playing tennis.

00:22:08: But you should not use your football while you're playing tennis.

00:22:13: So I think in the corporate world there's certain rules and cultural habits.

00:22:19: And if you don't know them, you you're just

00:22:22: yeah, you you learn quickly.

00:22:24: and I think it is, what hasn't changed, in these past 20 years

00:22:30: is that there's still a lot of status that you need to be aware of.

00:22:35: It doesn't mean that you have to like it.

00:22:37: It doesn't mean that the people inside the corporate world like it.

00:22:41: they have made a huge effort since agility in you work,

00:22:44: what have you to make a difference?

00:22:48: and there are amazing people making that difference.

00:22:53: but I would say that is something that people,

00:22:56: stumble over and also the processes, because of that status

00:23:00: and because of the bottlenecks, because you have levels and it's, and,

00:23:04: just showing it as sort of that's there is a top and then there is a bottom.

00:23:09: And if you think of hollow cratic approaches,

00:23:12: if you think of self-organize till organizations, it is a circle.

00:23:17: So having this architecture or having that

00:23:20: architecture makes a huge difference.

00:23:23: So and that is the most interesting thing that is changing right now.

00:23:28: And that is also leading to a lot of people into coaching

00:23:32: because they the people who are used to that one architecture

00:23:35: and set of rules don't know the rules of the new game.

00:23:39: And the newbies should be aware of the fact that that other system

00:23:44: has worked enormously well for a long time, and there are also

00:23:48: a lot of people to respect, and that's game.

00:23:52: So yeah, again, we're ending up with systems

00:23:55: and colliding and trying to sort of merge.

00:23:58: And that's that's the very interesting thing that is happening.

00:24:01: Right now. Well, definitely.

00:24:03: What do you feel like are traits that people have or should have

00:24:07: or should develop, or what traits in a person help navigate that?

00:24:10: I mean, seeing those, unwritten rules everywhere,

00:24:14: I don't see them and basically, yeah, go by trial and error.

00:24:20: And so traits I

00:24:21: think it's and this is why I'm working with the inner system

00:24:24: and the outer system as well, because that's,

00:24:28: that's my way of dealing with it.

00:24:30: Because if you're used to be on top of something,

00:24:33: if you're used to look down and it doesn't mean

00:24:35: that there are arrogant people, but that there is sort of an ego,

00:24:39: it's good to have a dialog with your ego.

00:24:43: So if you're used to coming into the room

00:24:45: and everyone becomes silent because you are, the CTO, CIO or what

00:24:51: have you, and suddenly there's a, there are other people

00:24:54: who think they should say something because there are the experts.

00:24:58: Yeah.

00:24:58: Because when you were speaking of agility and new work, there's a different

00:25:02: that's a different set.

00:25:03: So you might feel put off.

00:25:05: You might feel like they don't respect me.

00:25:08: Okay.

00:25:09: Yeah.

00:25:09: Or this, you know, that's it should work in a different way.

00:25:13: Or decision making processes are different in the one setting and the other.

00:25:18: Yeah.

00:25:18: So you think you should have the last word?

00:25:22: these are all the things where you can see this is how the organization works,

00:25:26: and this is how I work within myself.

00:25:30: and I think it's amazing how many people are opening up

00:25:33: towards coaching because of that, because they feel,

00:25:38: the, my inner setting is somehow, like you said, like your gut is.

00:25:42: I think something is off.

00:25:44: Yeah.

00:25:45: And they feel like,

00:25:46: well, the way I used to do my job is not working anymore, the way

00:25:50: I, I'm not that effective anymore or I don't like it the way I feel.

00:25:56: So yeah, I think it should

00:25:58: be an open to that,

00:26:03: to understand that there are different systems.

00:26:05: So systems theory is in general something that I would like people

00:26:09: to know more of and to be more familiar with, because I think it's key.

00:26:13: Otherwise people think it's personal and it's not.

00:26:16: It does something personal to you, but it isn't.

00:26:20: That's a huge difference.

00:26:22: It's for sure.

00:26:23: Wow, that's really valuable insight.

00:26:25: I think even for people coming

00:26:26: new into the corporate world or also just changing a job, right?

00:26:29: Because sometimes within one job or the other job might be as corporate

00:26:34: as the other.

00:26:35: It can be a totally different experience, right?

00:26:38: Yeah, that's I'm telling from experience as well.

00:26:40: I'm new into the corporate world and I was wondering about you Claire

00:26:44: can you share like what is there one or is there one specific experience

00:26:48: that you might be willing to

00:26:50: to share from your coaching journey, where you address challenges

00:26:53: related to that moment of entering the corporate world?

00:26:58: It starts to happen. Yes, yes.

00:27:01: there have been, I guess,

00:27:04: going back to my gut feeling of

00:27:08: in in education when everything is so transparent

00:27:12: and I keep going like this because it's not in my minds top down.

00:27:16: It's it's just we we work together.

00:27:19: There are bosses, but

00:27:22: generally when it works well, we're all working together.

00:27:26: And when you have a good idea, you are sharing it

00:27:31: and we all make the same money. Or we may.

00:27:33: We don't get anything more for that.

00:27:36: Competitiveness is not always in the education system that I know.

00:27:40: And so you don't learn, but you don't always

00:27:44: or you shouldn't always share everything.

00:27:47: So when I was coming up with different ideas and I was so excited

00:27:50: and I brought that same excitement

00:27:52: to a corporate environment, I went with the same.

00:27:56: You guys have to hear about this, and this will make you a lot of money,

00:28:00: and I want to be a part of it.

00:28:01: And and then my gut was saying,

00:28:05: no, no, I couldn't hold that back.

00:28:08: But my mind and my ego were saying,

00:28:13: but this is what you want.

00:28:15: You have to get there because this might be your last chance

00:28:18: and your only chance because who else is going to open a door?

00:28:22: Like, to me it was, oh, a door opens.

00:28:24: I want to get there.

00:28:25: And then how annoying that my gut had to come in and say,

00:28:29: Claire, this is not the way.

00:28:32: And looking back, I should have done different things

00:28:37: and made different,

00:28:38: but maybe not shared as much information, or maybe kept a bit to myself,

00:28:41: or maybe shared it with people who my gut felt very aligned with.

00:28:48: because to me

00:28:49: personally, in my experience and especially learning

00:28:52: with Ellen and systems as that is my my kind of compass

00:28:57: and the rest when we all work together, we bring my brain, heart and gut.

00:29:00: It's wonderful.

00:29:01: But that one is the kind of

00:29:04: final, gets the final say, gets the ending like the end.

00:29:09: We can.

00:29:09: So there were moments.

00:29:11: Yes. We're ideas.

00:29:14: that I had were then spread out and I thought, oh,

00:29:16: I thought that was just between us.

00:29:17: It's not okay.

00:29:20: And then I would tell Ellen, I'm not sure what just happened.

00:29:23: And she.

00:29:24: Oh, the.

00:29:24: Yeah, that face of,

00:29:27: that that my, your idea

00:29:29: is now in the world with people who maybe you didn't

00:29:32: need to share it with, and they can now do what they want with it, even though I.

00:29:37: But that's not right. No, that's not right.

00:29:39: And that can be the corporate world.

00:29:41: And and again, I learned a lot from that and nothing bad came from it actually.

00:29:46: So I am very grateful for that and happy to continue my work.

00:29:50: But it was a real learning experience of

00:29:54: how you have to trust yourself.

00:29:57: It's not don't trust people, but it's trust yourself first

00:30:00: and then work with that and you'll get to where you need to be.

00:30:04: Makes total sense and still sense you.

00:30:07: Moving on to another subject, if I may.

00:30:10: Again, back to you, Claire.

00:30:12: like we already talked about your biography.

00:30:15: And there's the part of yours and I think many people who

00:30:18: listen and watch may be interested in that.

00:30:21: is becoming an entrepreneur and being self-employed all of a sudden.

00:30:25: And I guess that brings a whole new set of,

00:30:29: things to think about and challenges.

00:30:31: Can you elaborate a little bit on that and also on how coaching

00:30:35: guided you on that way? Yes, definitely.

00:30:38: So being an entrepreneur and a new country and,

00:30:43: the stages of figuring out how to legally,

00:30:47: create my company in a place where I'm also very new

00:30:51: and I don't have my network anymore that I had when I was in Thailand.

00:30:56: That was a big struggle because I think, again, I had that one

00:31:01: point in my mind that if I make it here, then I have succeeded.

00:31:05: And again, with the whole system telling me, slow down,

00:31:09: you're in the right direction. Nope.

00:31:11: Now you're not. Then and now you are.

00:31:13: And I had to pause,

00:31:16: take a break, listen to myself.

00:31:19: Which sometimes I didn't do.

00:31:21: And when it came to my own company and for,

00:31:27: a year in the Netherlands, I was really working on building

00:31:30: this, and I, I went quite,

00:31:33: far with it, I would say.

00:31:34: And I was very proud of my progress.

00:31:37: but there were moments where I thought, there are still things that haven't yet

00:31:41: lined up, and there's expectations such as paying bills and things like that.

00:31:46: So in my mind, I was it was tough.

00:31:49: I would reach out to Ellen and say, I'm feeling this way.

00:31:52: I feel like I need to go back to teaching.

00:31:54: And to me that was at that moment

00:31:58: considered a failure,

00:32:00: and that was really hard for me to get rid of.

00:32:06: I keep going here because it was at one point

00:32:08: I wanted to get and everything else was telling me.

00:32:10: That's maybe that's not even your point, that you need to live,

00:32:13: you need to go a different way, but you're really not letting yourself.

00:32:16: So how else can we get that going?

00:32:18: Okay, bills and the taxes were going.

00:32:21: And I ended up,

00:32:24: accepting a

00:32:25: wonderful teaching job at the school that supports me

00:32:29: in ways I've never been supported before as an educator.

00:32:32: And it's opened up,

00:32:34: an area where now I don't see the education system as broken.

00:32:39: I see it as people are trying to fix it.

00:32:41: And now I found my pupil, and we can

00:32:44: really start to feel this momentum of, do you want to work with me?

00:32:47: This is what I'm doing. This is my company.

00:32:49: Can you help me? Can we do it together?

00:32:51: And now I'm in this area where my my gut is saying, yes, let's go.

00:32:56: And then with that, your system aligns.

00:32:58: This energy starts coming to you.

00:33:01: creative and with a drive.

00:33:03: And that here, that point starts to become less important.

00:33:08: And because you've kind of opened up

00:33:11: your mind and body and your whole being into.

00:33:15: Let's see what happens.

00:33:16: I'm no longer my ego is no longer deciding.

00:33:18: This means I've succeeded.

00:33:20: And even that this means I failed this part of oh, I didn't get here.

00:33:24: I now have the support system because I support myself.

00:33:27: I think I truly believe that that people are wanting to work with me.

00:33:32: I'm really wanting to work with them.

00:33:33: And things are aligning and you get check ins every now again, it's,

00:33:39: take a read, see

00:33:39: what's going on with this idea or this person.

00:33:42: And again, it could be maybe it's theirs.

00:33:45: They've had a bad day,

00:33:46: but maybe we shouldn't be making a decision because we feel that.

00:33:50: And it's it's interesting that coaching has let me see that

00:33:53: instead of in the past.

00:33:54: I would say, well, I. Know.

00:33:56: I failed and move on.

00:33:59: But of course, with a bit of heartbreak because failure hurts and

00:34:02: and now it was I still felt you failed, but because we're still a work in

00:34:06: progress, I was able to reflect and say, okay, what did I learn from Allen?

00:34:10: What have I learned from coaching?

00:34:12: How can I see this with a different mindsets?

00:34:15: And it took time, but I'm getting there and it's really feeling good.

00:34:20: Sounds like you were

00:34:21: dissecting situations throughout and got really granular.

00:34:24: And again, it's like the fight flight, fight freeze

00:34:27: or escape response weighing who should I do that or not?

00:34:31: It's like all that come together again.

00:34:33: You talk a lot about your gut feeling, right?

00:34:35: So that's like a lot of stuff in in your body that's happening at those moments.

00:34:39: Is there and hasn't played a part in your coaching

00:34:42: as well, like the overall experience of how does that actually feel?

00:34:46: And is it your gut that you feel it most in or.

00:34:52: A. Reason that I'm here today.

00:34:58: and truly and when they're aligned the three

00:35:00: the brains, the brain heart and guts I feel amazing.

00:35:05: but with coaching,

00:35:09: I started with Allen and we talked about, where do you want to get where do you.

00:35:13: And I said, I just I don't even know why I got this.

00:35:17: This was competitive and other women deserve it more.

00:35:20: And that oh, man, I think I know where to start with you.

00:35:23: And she'd say, where do you feel that?

00:35:25: And I thought, cool, we're gonna I'll tell you, I don't know why

00:35:31: she's asking me this, but, yeah, I feel it here.

00:35:35: Or she'll say, I noticed you touched your heart when you said that.

00:35:37: Oh, yeah.

00:35:39: She's actively watching and listening to you.

00:35:41: That feels nice.

00:35:41: It's very nice to have a coach that is truly with you on this journey,

00:35:46: but she would tell me and help me learn about.

00:35:48: I feel it in my heart.

00:35:50: What does and what does that mean to you?

00:35:52: And I'd say, oh, but that was enough to tell you.

00:35:54: Now I have to think what it means to me, but I like these questions.

00:35:57: Well, generally I think this means,

00:36:00: that I'm emotional and that's where it sits with me.

00:36:03: Other people, it might sit somewhere else

00:36:06: and and then she'd say, and what do you need to do

00:36:09: if that's not a good feeling for you right now to feel better?

00:36:12: And we figured out things like,

00:36:15: if I'm feeling it a lot in my head then

00:36:18: and I can't, I can't break through that feeling.

00:36:21: I need to take a walk or move or exercise.

00:36:25: If I'm feeling it here, I generally need to have a chocolate bar and take a nap.

00:36:30: And here in my gut, it was.

00:36:33: You really need to pause and decide.

00:36:37: you can listen to it right now or you don't have to, but any choice

00:36:40: you make know that this guy or this girl or whoever at that moments

00:36:45: it wants to be, is trying to tell you something right now.

00:36:49: And sometimes you don't stop and wait for it.

00:36:51: But it's it that goes to my brain.

00:36:54: So don't forget.

00:36:55: And now I'm remembering. Okay, I'll come back to you.

00:36:57: But it does take a lot of energy to sort that out.

00:37:00: Yeah.

00:37:01: And on on those steps of becoming an entrepreneur or self-employed.

00:37:05: the trigger took out a lot where only where moments of fear may be.

00:37:09: And she had to find courage within yourself.

00:37:11: Yeah, you would agree, right?

00:37:12: Yes, yes.

00:37:13: And it's new territory.

00:37:14: And we spoke earlier today about,

00:37:17: for me, when things

00:37:19: are new, I tend to get quite anxious.

00:37:23: when I was a kid and I had a first day somewhere, my dad would.

00:37:27: So at school, my dad would drive my sister and I to the school, and it was closed.

00:37:31: And we break in and hop the fence.

00:37:34: And that was always very exciting.

00:37:36: And you'd walk us around and then explain, you know, this.

00:37:40: And so we got a feeling of at least that part my brain could see.

00:37:45: I know where I'm going.

00:37:46: I know I'll physically be.

00:37:48: I walked there with my dad, I jumped that fence.

00:37:51: Let's try and and then the next day, what we dealt with was the emotions.

00:37:55: And it would be everyone's new here, just like you.

00:37:58: But it's getting that perspective.

00:37:59: It's perspective. It's not just you.

00:38:01: It could be the environments other people and practicing and experience that.

00:38:06: So with entrepreneurship it is.

00:38:07: I have to remember some days you can't practice it, you just have to do it.

00:38:12: But then you

00:38:13: have to be gentle with yourself and give yourself a lot of grace to say.

00:38:16: Good for trying.

00:38:19: It's amazing.

00:38:21: What would you say?

00:38:22: I mean, it's also a big question, but maybe, maybe have some thoughts on that.

00:38:26: What is there any advice that you would give people

00:38:28: who are on the verge or on, on that point in their lives where they might consider

00:38:33: getting self-employed?

00:38:34: I mean, I guess everybody who's been employed all their life

00:38:37: reaches that point.

00:38:38: Sometime during their career

00:38:41: and goes like, oh, maybe I'm just going to do it myself.

00:38:43: I mean, and that's easily, easily, more easily said than done, obviously.

00:38:46: But, what would you what would you think about that?

00:38:49: What advice would you give persons.

00:38:51: Would it look.

00:38:53: I think it really it really depends on, again,

00:38:56: there's so many, perspectives that you can draw on.

00:39:00: So there's the, the personal perspective, what kind of person I am?

00:39:04: Why am I an extrovert? An introvert?

00:39:06: What is the job that I want to do and what can I do about that?

00:39:09: And how do I deal with my customers.

00:39:12: Well so it's and then but then there's also, of course, the business.

00:39:15: I mean there's this really heavy business like

00:39:18: what is my product or what's the service that I want to put on the market.

00:39:23: how am I going to be doing it

00:39:25: differently than others, or can I compete with others?

00:39:29: so what is special about my offer?

00:39:31: And then I think there's

00:39:32: one of the toughest things that I needed to learn coming from corporate.

00:39:36: And, I didn't really.

00:39:37: I didn't even know that I wanted to be an entrepreneur.

00:39:39: I it just happened rather to me.

00:39:41: And I just it stuck with me.

00:39:44: I stuck with it because, maybe not, but it's,

00:39:48: is the enormous financial way of looking at it.

00:39:53: And I think that is one thing.

00:39:54: If you're doing it really on your own.

00:39:56: I think that is one thing I would definitely say.

00:39:59: Be sure that you have some kind of money back in your bank account.

00:40:04: It sounds very profane, but it is, because it is risky.

00:40:08: It is risky.

00:40:10: It's not only what you do is it is all the especially in Germany,

00:40:14: the whole tax system.

00:40:16: So it is a part within me that I needed to develop this, this,

00:40:22: this way of thinking in financial terms.

00:40:25: I hadn't done that before

00:40:26: because I could be the specialist and the expert in my field.

00:40:31: But being an entrepreneur is so much more.

00:40:33: There is, again, there are certain it's it's a huge puzzle.

00:40:38: And maybe other people would be very sure about the financial side

00:40:42: and they would say like, oh, Ellen, you didn't think of that thought.

00:40:46: And then there is another thing missing within them

00:40:50: and then there ways of looking at,

00:40:53: so I think it's,

00:40:57: It is a it and it definitely is a journey

00:40:59: and it's much less safer than it used to be at the corporate

00:41:05: or, working in a team.

00:41:06: You are your own team, and you need to build your,

00:41:09: network of people that you working with and find people you,

00:41:14: you could,

00:41:16: in the worst case, do the workshop for you or do your product for you.

00:41:19: Because if you are one woman or one man or one, they show,

00:41:25: then,

00:41:27: you really have to have that safety net as well.

00:41:30: So it's a, it's a people safety and it's, financial safety, I guess.

00:41:35: Yeah. Makes makes a lot of sense making.

00:41:38: And actually, it's a really great bridge for me and transition to

00:41:42: because I remembered when we first started talking about

00:41:45: getting together here today and having this podcast recording session,

00:41:49: the first ever podcast recording sessions, we talked about,

00:41:53: something that I found super interesting and those were setbacks.

00:41:57: What if it doesn't work like and that also we've talked about that now,

00:42:01: regarding the self-employment,

00:42:04: what if something doesn't work out and so you have a failure and,

00:42:07: there are failures paving our career path a lot,

00:42:11: decisions we make or we haven't made. And,

00:42:15: I think, like, it's this distinguishing moment of failure, if you will.

00:42:18: Right. And you said that.

00:42:21: Put it beautifully, Elon, because he said, is it a failure

00:42:24: or is it a moment to learn?

00:42:27: how did you mean that?

00:42:28: To tell people who are listening to us right now.

00:42:30: To tell people who are listening to us right now.

00:42:32: I made a lot of,

00:42:34: sort of like so-called failures and mistakes were my way.

00:42:37: Not only I mean, in me being having my own company

00:42:41: and also being in the corporate world and being self-employed.

00:42:44: So all sorts of different formats that I went through.

00:42:48: and to me,

00:42:50: it's, it's the only way to keep on going

00:42:53: is not to give up, but to say, okay, what is it that I'm taking out of it?

00:42:57: It was painful.

00:42:58: Maybe there was a lot of shame involved.

00:43:01: In some of. The things that I did.

00:43:04: but to exact, to accept that, it's like, yes, you are ashamed

00:43:08: or yes, you're frustrated or yes, you think you can't do this,

00:43:12: but and then to think, okay, how did I get there

00:43:16: and what would I not repeat?

00:43:20: And what do I want to do instead?

00:43:25: and it helped me definitely to, to go on

00:43:28: and to also to reduce the anger or to reduce the.

00:43:34: And that's again that's again, it's a, it's all the time.

00:43:37: It's coming back to this like the ego says this thing and the

00:43:41: but if you are getting over that,

00:43:44: you there's just so many other options

00:43:47: and it opens up to you and that's definitely something.

00:43:50: And it's I mean, it's there is this amazing,

00:43:55: or these buzzwords about fixed mindset and growth mindset.

00:43:58: It comes from Carol Dweck.

00:44:01: and, it's not rocket science,

00:44:04: but to use it, that's rocket science.

00:44:07: I would say.

00:44:09: In what you read the.

00:44:10: Book, I that everyone says, like.

00:44:12: I knew.

00:44:13: That, that's but using it

00:44:16: really, really be honest to yourself.

00:44:19: And say is am I fixed right now or can I grow from this?

00:44:24: And that's that is the moment.

00:44:26: and I think coaches that's these are the people or mentors

00:44:30: who get you in that moment.

00:44:33: I was definitely also my mentors and my coaches who helped me.

00:44:36: So and also my client for I'm not saying,

00:44:41: That's great talking about your clients.

00:44:45: no. Clear.

00:44:46: But can you, if you think back, have you in your career,

00:44:50: has there ever been like a moment where, like, okay, that hasn't went that

00:44:54: hasn't gone that well, maybe maybe it has even been a failure, but,

00:44:59: what how did you look at that opportunity, at that failure

00:45:02: also being an experience to learn to have a growth mindset, if you will.

00:45:06: Yes, definitely.

00:45:09: and I wish I could say that in the exact moment I said, well,

00:45:12: Elon said it's a learning experience, so that's what it is.

00:45:15: But I, I'm quite an emotional person and learning that about myself.

00:45:20: I knew things like failure,

00:45:24: would take time because I see it so closely

00:45:27: and feel it to then get to the point of now I can see it

00:45:31: and it takes time in terms of actual concept of time that we know, but also in

00:45:37: how my body digests what happens

00:45:41: and how that takes time in itself.

00:45:45: and I do think

00:45:46: the progress that I've made from coaching is that it's

00:45:50: it doesn't stop at failure, because I did tend to say, oh, it wasn't meant for me.

00:45:54: That's not in my cards now I'll do something else and etc.

00:45:59: now I'm learning to say, yeah, that was a failure

00:46:03: or that didn't go the way I planned or and take a step back.

00:46:08: What are my options now?

00:46:10: What did I learn from this?

00:46:11: What will I not do again?

00:46:12: So kind of creating when you go into,

00:46:16: your amygdala is going into,

00:46:17: okay, do I freeze or fight or fly away?

00:46:21: I feel that happening.

00:46:24: And I pause and I say, okay, how can we how can we fix this?

00:46:28: Because I know I really feel that no matter what,

00:46:30: what I'm doing is important and I will continue.

00:46:34: Whether that means that point might change my values and beliefs

00:46:38: within the educational system continues to get stronger every day.

00:46:41: And so I know that no matter what, I will get to where I need to go.

00:46:45: And that's also very reassuring.

00:46:47: And it feels good to know that that feeling is real.

00:46:50: It's not just a really great idea.

00:46:52: There you go. That's an American dream.

00:46:54: I say, no, no, no, this is coming from somewhere that's different than outside.

00:46:59: It's really within me and I will get to where I need to be.

00:47:02: How do I take these failures and moments and learning experiences to get there

00:47:08: in a more secure way, where I feel good about each step that I'm taking?

00:47:12: Sounds great.

00:47:13: It's making like a polestar that you have, right?

00:47:16: That's leading you, when you.

00:47:18: Well, you don't have much of sight.

00:47:20: Maybe it's hard enough for them.

00:47:22: Enough to much. And I'm not going there in English.

00:47:26: but to the both of you, maybe

00:47:28: so, because I think this is an it's really an, an essential topic.

00:47:31: And there's a lot of fear connected to setbacks and failures.

00:47:35: and something that,

00:47:38: we try to avoid at all costs. Right.

00:47:40: But so how can individuals start to develop this growth mindset?

00:47:45: Where do you get started even to say like, okay, this has been a failure, maybe.

00:47:49: But I can learn from that.

00:47:51: How how would you actually do it?

00:47:53: You were starting to explain it, but where do you start?

00:47:56: How do you turn a setback into something positive?

00:47:58: I mean, that's so difficult, isn't it?

00:48:01: It was,

00:48:02: sorry. Come back to to or not.

00:48:04: Sorry, but, go back to, to Carol Dweck because these were the pages that I was

00:48:08: very, very interested in.

00:48:10: And it was it was amazing because I found that she or what she suggested,

00:48:14: one of the strategies was exactly what I was already doing with the Clyne's,

00:48:17: because listening to that voice, who is telling you that this is a failure?

00:48:22: Okay, who's saying it?

00:48:23: Who's finding it?

00:48:25: who told me that this is something I shouldn't do or that

00:48:27: I should feel bad about it because it's nothing bad about making a mistake.

00:48:31: It's rather the feeling that you have when you done it.

00:48:34: So if you have been shamed and blamed a lot,

00:48:37: and if there is a lot of shaming and blaming going on and in the

00:48:40: in the working area, that you're on the field that you're working in

00:48:44: or the team or your boss or whoever, it's of course, very tricky.

00:48:48: So the first thing that I do is, actually and I have a lot of clients,

00:48:53: I'm afraid that I have that so-called

00:48:57: imposter phenomenon or imposter syndrome.

00:49:00: So to separate again, that voice or that entity

00:49:04: that is telling you, oh, yeah, we are not good enough.

00:49:08: Oh, you haven't done enough.

00:49:10: Yeah.

00:49:11: Which keeps them awake at night, which gives them a high blood pressure.

00:49:15: So to separate that and to build up

00:49:17: another entity or another voice, another planet, another what have you,

00:49:23: that is more caring.

00:49:25: So one of the questions I usually ask

00:49:28: is, would you do that to a child?

00:49:31: Would you do that to your own child?

00:49:34: Would you say the same thing to them in that voice

00:49:38: and that strictness

00:49:40: and that shifts because then they they

00:49:43: they are not they are not their worst critique.

00:49:47: They're becoming the person who's doing it to someone.

00:49:50: And suddenly you have that other

00:49:54: that you would like to take care of.

00:49:56: And it's a very touching moment usually because then they it's

00:50:00: it's, it's irritating

00:50:03: and because they suddenly figure out

00:50:04: how bad they are treating themselves.

00:50:10: and it's, it's

00:50:11: a happening to a lot of successful people.

00:50:15: Yeah.

00:50:15: It's not usually people who are,

00:50:19: doing an average.

00:50:20: I mean, sorry, because that's it's never I don't know if there are any

00:50:23: average jobs, but it's,

00:50:25: it's happening to a lot of successful people.

00:50:27: It's happening more to successful women than to men.

00:50:31: Whatever reason there is, we could say,

00:50:33: go into that for another podcast.

00:50:37: yeah.

00:50:38: So I'm trying again to separate it and to,

00:50:42: and maybe to name some other amazing, from an amazing therapist

00:50:47: and psychotherapist is, Marsha Linehan, who has developed

00:50:51: the dialectical behavioral therapy, who was, bipolar herself.

00:50:56: And she is I mean, I think what she's done is this an idea of acceptance.

00:51:02: And because a lot of clients come to me and they don't want

00:51:05: they want to get rid of that voice, they want to get rid of that feeling.

00:51:08: And some of it you just can't do, because it's the system that has been set.

00:51:15: So you maybe you need to accept that it might be a life long voice,

00:51:20: but you can deal with it

00:51:21: in a different way, and you can give it another a counterpart,

00:51:24: and you can put the carer and not only the critique into your system.

00:51:30: So that is how

00:51:31: I work, usually with people who have a strong in a critique,

00:51:35: who is very dysfunctional because it's there's nothing wrong with saying, oh,

00:51:38: I made a mistake.

00:51:40: A lot of people. Should learn that.

00:51:41: But I hit the first place.

00:51:43: Exactly.

00:51:44: And I just wonder, is it always that inner work

00:51:48: or that can to what extent do you need other people to do that?

00:51:51: It sounds like you need to work a lot on yourself to have to develop

00:51:54: a higher degree of empathy also towards yourself,

00:51:57: and in order to identify the voices even or, and, to, to to guide them.

00:52:03: To what extent you actually rely on somebody like a coach to do that.

00:52:09: You might in the beginning, if I understand you correctly.

00:52:14: in the beginning, they don't have that voice.

00:52:16: And I think it's the coach that is that entity,

00:52:20: for a while, until they can implement that coach themselves within them.

00:52:24: And that is actually my goal in coaching.

00:52:26: And I'm quite open about this by now.

00:52:29: I didn't do that 20 years ago.

00:52:31: but by now, I say the reason why we are working

00:52:34: is that I really don't want you to need this.

00:52:38: And so I'm, I'm also quite open about the methodologies

00:52:42: and the, the tricks, but I'm using it's.

00:52:45: Because.

00:52:45: I think everybody can learn it.

00:52:47: You don't have to do it as a job.

00:52:49: You can use it and and give it like a take away.

00:52:55: And that is something that I'm trying to do.

00:52:57: So I know that some,

00:53:01: some of

00:53:01: my clients who have been working with me for a long time,

00:53:05: they just come back and they just like a refresher.

00:53:09: And so.

00:53:11: So you need them not to need you anymore.

00:53:13: That's my approach.

00:53:15: I want to I want them not to need me or not

00:53:18: to need coaching because they have that coach within them.

00:53:21: And that is an external, non-judgmental voice.

00:53:25: Yeah, it's a voice that so or whatever you call it.

00:53:27: Some people don't like using saying voice, but like it's an entity

00:53:30: or it's a person.

00:53:31: Whatever you think of is good for you is a word.

00:53:36: it is something that is not judging you, but reflecting.

00:53:40: And this brings a partner.

00:53:42: So that's how I say it.

00:53:44: And when they implement that within themselves, they,

00:53:48: you know, what would Elon say?

00:53:50: What would Aleksandr what would whoever the coaches name is say

00:53:55: saves a lot of money.

00:53:58: I know this is okay.

00:54:01: you're very effective in hits.

00:54:04: She makes you.

00:54:05: I mean, she it makes you never want to leave it because she's.

00:54:09: So she asks all the right questions when you need it.

00:54:13: And to really dig deep.

00:54:14: But I had a moments,

00:54:16: like, a month ago, I think.

00:54:18: And I really was thinking, I wish I had a session with Elon

00:54:24: because I'm just feeling, And then I sat down for a minute

00:54:28: and I thought, okay, well, I don't have it right now.

00:54:32: And, you know, it's dinner time and it's inappropriate to message her.

00:54:36: So what would Ellen ask right now?

00:54:39: And it's like my brain or a different entity or something

00:54:41: was to, to to to do and just the questions.

00:54:45: I think she would have asked me that we have practiced or worked with happened,

00:54:49: and I was able to write it down and think, okay, I can answer that.

00:54:53: Oh, that's why I'm feeling this way.

00:54:54: Oh, then maybe this is the path I should take.

00:54:57: And I thought, oh my gosh, Ellen's with me in the room.

00:55:02: She's not actually here.

00:55:03: So I but I didn't know that I was capable of that until I needed it.

00:55:08: So when we had our final meeting through

00:55:12: which I was a wreck, I could say, I'm not ready to to leave you.

00:55:15: And I feel like I've learned a lot, but like and then we were able

00:55:20: to to work around that and also it did help me SEO it.

00:55:24: You did teach me quite a lot.

00:55:25: I have a big toolbox of things that can use

00:55:28: and it's fabulous.

00:55:31: Thank you.

00:55:32: Thank you.

00:55:33: And I think I learned that also from you to say, okay,

00:55:35: I really want people to be feel ready, that they can

00:55:39: say, no, no, I'm good.

00:55:41: I've got the tools and I know I understand

00:55:44: now how it works and I've got that entity that is helping me.

00:55:49: so yeah.

00:55:51: Having this great point to start this podcast.

00:55:54: Thank you so, so much, guys.

00:55:55: That was a lovely conversation and a lot of insight.

00:55:58: And thank you very much for being here today.